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Ep #015: Following Finance Strategies and Planning Charitable Giving with Renju Jose Kuruvila Thumbnail

Ep #015: Following Finance Strategies and Planning Charitable Giving with Renju Jose Kuruvila

After growing up in India and spending his early years working for his family’s agricultural business, Renju Jose Kuruvila relocated to the United States for his education. But instead of going back to India after he earned a Master’s degree in Manufacturing Systems Engineering from the University of Texas at Austin and an MBA from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, Renju decided to get his U.S. citizenship. Now, he serves as Senior Vice President for the multinational corporation National Oilwell Varco.

In this episode, Renju shares what made him decide to remain in the United States after completing his education, as well as his experience securing his citizenship. He also opens up about his personal finance strategies and why the legacy he wants to leave has little to do with money. Listen in to hear how he defines success for himself and his advice for those who have followed or wish to follow a similar path.

Listen to the Full Episode:

What You'll Learn In Today's Episode:

  • Renju’s background and professional experiences.
  • What made him decide to remain in the United States after completing his education.
  • The difference between an F1, J1, and M1 visa.
  • How he went about securing his citizenship in the U.S.
  • His personal definition of success.
  • Pivotal points in his life.
  • The importance of being true to yourself.
  • The different kinds of donations you can make.
  • Which of Renju’s projects has given him the greatest sense of achievement.
  • The most important thing that money gives him today.
  • His personal finance strategies.
  • Rules he follows with his money.
  • How he wants to be remembered.

Ideas Worth Sharing:

 "People are wired a certain way, and success is when you find your rhythm in life." - Renju Jose Kuruvila

"Investing in what you know, and what I mean is investing in yourself." - Renju Jose Kuruvila

"I want to leave the world a better place than I found it. I think it’s that plain and simple." - Renju Jose Kuruvila

Resources In Today's Episode:

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Full Episode Transcript:

Download The Transcript 

Welcome to the Myra Wealth Podcast. Myra Wealth provides personal finance services to international and multi-cultural families in the United States. Each week our founder and CEO Sahil Vakil interviews highly successful international and multi-cultural individuals to uncover how they managed their money. And how they navigated some of the most important personal finance decisions of their lives.

Learn from these first- and second-generation immigrants just like you. And from Sahil himself on how to better manage your money and make smarter financial decisions. Here's your host Sahil Vakil.

Sahil Vakil:          Welcome everyone. Welcome to the 15th episode of the MYRA Wealth podcast. My guest on today's podcast is Renju Jose Kuruvila. Renju is current the senior vice president, the National Oilwell Varco NOV. NOV is an American multinational corporation based in Houston, Texas. It is the leading worldwide provider of equipment and components using oil and gas drilling and production operations, oil field services and supply chain integration services to the upstream oil and gas industry. In addition to serving as senior vice president, Renju also sits on the board of NOV’s Joint Ventures with Schlumberger called Intelliserve, the board of Interviews Joint Venture with Saudi Aramco called ARM as a member of the NLB Agent Review Committee. He also serves in the board of the Wharton Club of Houston and the Houston Area Parkinson Society. Renju was born and brought up in India. In his early years, he successfully managed the family industrial business before we look into the United States for an education. 

                           He has an undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering, a master's degree in manufacturing systems engineering from the University of Texas at Austin, and MBA from the Wharton school at the University of Pennsylvania. He is also a CFA charter holder. So with that introduction, I hope you enjoy this episode of the MYRA Wealth podcast with Renju Jose Kuruvilla. Welcome Renju, welcome to MYRA Wealth podcast. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Happy, happy to be here Sahil. 

Sahil Vakil:          Absolutely, it's exciting to have you on as well. Renju before we get started here, if you don't mind, please, briefly introduce yourself. Where are you from? Where's your family from? Personal professional experiences, anything that could help the audience get to know you a little better would be fantastic. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Absolutely. Glad to, first of all thanks for taking the time. Wonderful Initiative that you've taken on Sahil. It's been a pleasure to have known you all of these years. To your question, I'm a born and raised in Kerala, which is the southernmost state of India. I spend the first 20 years of my life there, pretty much the same small town. Came to the US for my graduate school. I went to the University of Texas. This was back in the early two thousands and graduated. Many people who've moved to this country with masters, degree from UT and Austin was a fun, cool town back in the day at that time. But it was also when the Dotcom bubble had burst. So my search for employment brought me to Houston, Texas being with the same employer since that time. So being with the same employer for a good 16 years now. And over the course of those 16 years, I've had various responsibilities with them. Today I'm a senior vice president within operations at a firm called National Oilwell Varco. 

Sahil Vakil:          That's amazing. That's a fantastic story. I mean I know you mentioned several folks from India actually including myself. I also moved here for a master's in engineering. There is a program called the SEVP or the Student and Exchange Visitor Program, which oversees F1 and M1 international students studying in the United States, the Department of state managers, JI exchange visitor program students. We weren't kind of count those but in a pretty much both the SEVP or the SEVP as people say it and the Department of State, they use a system called a SEVIS S-E-V-I-S which is the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System. And I mean for those just these terms are all new. So for those that don't know the difference between an F1 versus M1 versus J1 visa. 

                           Pretty much an F1 visa student is a non-immigrant whose primary purpose is to complete an academic course at SEVP certified school in the United States and M1 is also non-immigrant whose primary purpose is to complete a vocational course at SEVP certified school. J1 exchange visitor is a non-immigrant that's selected to participate in the US department of State Designated Exchange visitor program. That's just found the technicalities in that sense. But coming back to the point that I was trying to make is in a biannually the SEVP releases a report called the SEVIS by Numbers report, which we'll put in the show notes. This report is interesting, right? 

                           It pretty much suggests that there are 1.2 million F1 and M1 international students in the United States, and this is a start from 2018. Additionally, there are about 200,000 J1 exchange visitors. I mean, that's a pretty large portion of international students in the United States. And of these 1.2 million F and M visa holders in the United States, roughly about 85% of them are enrolled in bachelor's, master's, or doctoral programs. And it's highly educated individuals. Nearly 50% are from India or China. And approximately 35% are at schools in California, New York and Texas. 

                           I mean, so Renju would makes complete sense. Texas, India, master's student, you fit the profile there but sorry, please go ahead. I didn't mean to disrupt your story as you were saying, you feel like many people who have graduated from a master's degree program, you came here, many people who graduated from a master's degree program and it sounds like, so did you and then eventually you decided to live in the United States. Do you remember briefly what that decision looked like? What made you feel like you wanted to be in the United States versus, you never turn back to Kerala. And by the way, Kerala is beautiful. I've heard, I've never been there, but I've heard it's one of those amazing places where people go on a fantastic vacations to calm their soul. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    It a few clears that it is that way for one good reason. That is no industry there. So less pollution, less of industrial emissions, if you want to call it that. I think the people are also a lot more attuned to conservation and very in tune with needs of the environment. My experience growing up in Kerala, I come from an agricultural family who natural rubber, cardamom and spices growing up. And I worked with my dad for many years and the opportunity to get education in the US. The thought process back then was you get this short chance once in a lifetime. You can always go back if you want to, but your chance to go, it doesn't come all that often. So it's a chance you take and it's an adventure when you're in your early twenties, whether you look at it that way or not. That's the leap I took.

Sahil Vakil:          Okay. So you basically came here for your master's at the University of Texas. I'm presuming you came on an F1 student visa since you are from India. And then you mentioned you shortly got a job with NOV, which I'm presuming again was on an H-1B visa. Now, if my understanding serves me right for Indian citizens, the green card process is about, what is it like 10 to 15 years? If you are an H-1B given retrogression in the priority dates. How did you go about securing your citizenship and did you feel like the path to citizenship was a tough one or was it pretty smooth for you? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Everybody's experience is different. Some of it is being in the right spot at the right time. Some of it is positioning to take advantage of situations. I did come in on an F1 visa, like every international student, the company I joined, NOV stands for National Oilwell Varco. It's a mouthful International company. We operate in 65 countries. It is the largest manufacturer in the world of tools and products used for exploring fat and oil and gas resources. What that gave me an opportunity was to fairly shortly after I joined work in international operations. Now, this was not something that somebody asked me to do. I raised my hand and I said, I would like to try this. And as part of that, I was aware and so was our immigration legal department that with some level of seniority you could come back on a visa. When you came back to the states, visa status that was called an L-1A. 

Sahil Vakil:          Having read a little bit, clearly you've been at NOV now for, what is it like 17 years? And you've moved up the ranks very quickly you're a senior vice president now. I mean, that's fantastic. It's the one level below and a president of the company. And I'm just curious, what's your personal definition of success? Do you feel like you're successful right now or like what's that personal definition for you? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    That's an interesting question. I think some people are wired a certain way and success is when you find your rhythm in life. I'm not the kind of person who can sit still for long periods of time and that has pushed me to find new jobs every few years. I like challenging situations that gets me awake and to work every day. So I've tried to look for opportunities all along in my career and it's not necessarily the easiest opportunities that I've looked for. I've looked for things that are interesting. Things that help you to flex different muscles, develop different skill sets and that's worked out well over the years. 

Sahil Vakil:          Right. So if I'm hearing, and I'm recapping this accurately, you're saying you pretty much were putting up your hand all the time and if no one was seeing your hand, you were going and making sure people saw your hand. So you got the opportunity again being very proactive about it. Also sounds you are extremely curious because you always want to learn new things and take on new roles. So seems you moved around a couple of different departments, and learned the business from various different angles and aspects. And that's very interesting. So success for you then, just being extremely curious and remaining curious throughout your career. Is that how you define success? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    I think that that is generally true. It is also being true to yourself. I know that's a fairly wide concept, but try to find out who you are. Fight to get a sense for what keeps you going every day. And being in that stage is success. It's not necessarily particular title it, it's not necessarily a certain amount of salary and bonus, some money. It's not a particular achievement. To me it's getting to a stage where you feel comfortable at the place of work. And for me it's always been trying to find something else interesting in traveling. 

Sahil Vakil:          Now that's fantastic. I think that's an amazing definition. I mean if I'm hearing you in accurately, you're pretty much saying success is not a material definition. It's a mindset. That's just such a different way to think about it right? It's if you feel you're successful in your mind, you're successful in your life and then that's great to leave our listeners with. Let me ask you this. You've been at National Oilwell Varco NOV now for 17 years. You started as a strategic analyst, you kept moving up the corporate ladder. You're now a senior vice president. Through all the different roles that you've had in your career and at your NOV throughout your life, which one of those roles or which one of those projects has given you the greatest feeling of achievement? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Every role has its different quirks and ones that are in the future are better than the ones that are behind. Over the last decade or so, I've been heavily involved in NOVs acquisition efforts from a mergers and acquisition standpoint. That is an area that I've enjoyed significantly. It is a very exciting part of the business for the obvious reasons that you're making decisions that have long-term strategic implications for the company. Fairly high profile within the company. 

Sahil Vakil:          You mentioned you deal a lot with entrepreneurs in making these acquisitions. Have you ever considered going down the entrepreneurial route yourself? You went to Wharton for an MBA, one of the top schools and finance entrepreneurship. Did you ever consider going down that entrepreneurial route yourself? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    I have and maybe one day I'll try what you do. Getting aside, I grew up in a family that was fairly entrepreneurial. We had a family business and we've had it for generations. I'm the first person in my family to be having a job. So it's something that's in the back of my mind. Again, it needs to be the right opportunity, needs to be something that provides the right level of excitement, not probably in the immediate future. I've just taken on a new role at Adobe and it's an exciting one. So that's what I'm thinking about it. 

Sahil Vakil:          Got It. Makes sense. You're saying entrepreneurship is in your blood because you're, generations before you have been entrepreneurs. But from a professional perspective, you're happy where you are in corporate America today. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Yeah. And after that, even in corporate America, when you do well, when you take it upon us, your own baby, if you think about when you run a P&L, when you think about it as your own business. How would I make a decision of this on my own, have that sense of ownership. And if you can inculcate that sense of ownership within your employees, you will do really well. The decisions you make will be more, who find the balance between the short term versus the long term. 

Sahil Vakil:          Makes Sense. I'm going to ask you a very interesting question. Just close your eyes and imagine, you have an unlimited amount of money today. Would you do anything differently in your life? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    That is an interesting question. Yes. I think the answer is yes. I think if I said no, I would be fooling myself. The sacrifice you make or the offset you make with a busy life and the schedule is time with your family and your children. And that is what I try and maximize every day. I've got two small kids that grow up quick and find to wanting to spend more time with them when they are younger. This is something you hear consistently from managers, folks who are senior within many organizations or even people who've started out with their own ventures is I wish that I had spent more time with my kids when they were young. So that is one thing I would try and maximize if that was an option. 

Sahil Vakil:          That's great. I mean I think we hear that all the time as well is the first thing people talk about is their family spending more time with their spouse, their loved ones, their kids, their patents, et cetera. And it sounds like money is just something that we need to meet our needs. And once again back to that previous conversation, but if we had an abundance of money then we would be spending more times with our families. So having said that though, what is the most important thing that your money gives you today then it's not giving you that maximizing family lifetime. What is the most important thing that money gives you today? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Comfort and the ability to live with what I would call all the needs and some of the ones, the flexibility to take a vacation, the flexibility to provide for kids, go out have a nice meal. Things that are simple that you don't have to think too hard and too long about. So the ability to do some level of charity work along the way. I'm on the Board of a nonprofit area in Houston. We do some related work and participate in things along those nature. 

Sahil Vakil:          Please do share with our listeners which charity or part of and we'll include that in our show notes so they don't have access to the charitable organization as well. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Sure. So I sit on the board of, it's a 45-year-old Houston based nonprofit. It's called the Houston Area Parkinson's society. It serves the needs of people with Parkinson's disease within the Houston area. It holds about 180 different classes every month. And these are classes that help with movement, everything from ballet to boxing to Tai Chi classes that help people move flow. Parkinson's is a disease that give us, you sometimes Trevor's, traumas, stiffness. And the reason I've been involved as is my dad had this Parkinson's and it's something that has affected me growing up and this is my way of trying to give back just a little.

Sahil Vakil:          For those of you that are charitably inclined and would like to donate to the Houston Area Parkinson's Society or any other not-for-profit organization that's close to your heart, do remember that's your donations are actually taxed it up to both. From a financial standpoint, charitable givings can be very important part of your estate hacks and financial planning strategy. I mean, in fact and I think it's about like 26% or 25%, something along those lines of taxpayers itemize their deductions and charitable deductions are one of the biggest items on their tax return. So I mean, just quickly for our youth, like listeners, there are several ways you can make a charitable contribution, but if the amount is large will be highly recommend you plan for it. Try to maximize your estate and tax deductions as well. 

                           Just based on my experience in our collective experience at MYRA Wealth, I'm seeing several types of charitable giving. I can give you a couple of examples right now, but one such one that we've seen that's very commonly used is a donor-advised fund or a DAF. It's the type of charitable giving where, you donate a nonrefundable amount either in cash or securities to a nonprofit of your choice. And I think currently DAS they're comfortable about 3% of all charitable gifts in the United States. I mean it's picking up steam. It's not as popular yet, but I think overtime it will. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    One of the biggest advantages of this type of giving is, if you feel really close to the organization and want to be involved where you can actually, control to a certain degree how the funds are being used. I mean you're pretty much able to direct the funds administrator to ground some of these funds to the different organizations you believe should be made that crown to, I mean in addition you receive the maximum tax benefit immediately on the order of the contribution. 

                           I think this is like a really interesting strategy that we've seen a lot of families deploy and we actually have been recommending this as well, especially with the tax cut and jobs act of 2018 where the standard deduction has increased now. So families are looking to deploy the strategy that's called the bunching deductions strategy where in one year you would take the standard deduction and in the other year you would take an itemized deduction and you pretty much the oil taking the itemized deduction, you would bunch all your deductions together. 

                           So as an example, if you were setting up a donor advice fund, you might contribute maybe two years of charitable givings together in one year and a bunch of those deductions that you plan on taking the itemized deduction. 

Sahil Vakil:          Just give me other ideas on charitable givings. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Another one is real estate. I mean if you invest in real estate property that you're not going to use a states and investment property and you have at a large capital gains on it. If you sell the property, I mean, yes you can do a 10 31 exchange, but if you want to get out of real estate, you just want to sell the property rather than realizing and paying the large capital gains. You may just be able to donate that real estate and get a tax deduction equal to the fair market value. 

                           In some cases, I mean in most cases they would take the cost basis of the real estate. So in some cases they could give you the fair market value or throughout the state as a tax deduction as well. Say other ones, the simplest ones you've seen is obviously giving cash. If you give cash, the donation is up to the tax deduction is up to the cash amount that you provide. Here is one thing that people don't realize actually is if you make cash contributions, or say you go to your zoo, which is a set up as a 501(c) or nonprofit organization. And if you pay the membership fee for the zoo through a credit card or on cash, that technically is a tax deductible contribution because you're giving money to a non for profit, which is a 501(c) firm, even if it's a zoo when you're going there for your entertainment. But that membership payment is considered tax deductible item. 

                           Other strategies around charitable givings we've seen, individuals with a large on realized gain on stocks we've seen them donate these unrealized stocks such that they don't have to pay capital gains on the profits in that sense. Other things, oh actually a big one we've seen as the setting up of trust. This is, typically for a student restrooms. I mean we've seen them set up charitable trusts. I mean there are two types. One is a what is called a charitable lead trust and the other one is called a charitable remainder trust. So CLT or a CRT. So I mean pretty much what a lead trust or a CLT is, it's a trust that you establish by transferring assets into the trust. And then the stream of income that the trust generates, that stream of income is donated to a charitable organization. 

                           Now here is the turning piece, right? Or why a student restaurants use it is because you're giving the income stream to the charitable organization but the money that's leftover in the trust at the end of the period that you defined for the trust, that money is disbursed tax free to the beneficiaries of that trust. So I mean this is similar to a CLT in a CRT, which is the charitable remainder trust, the beneficiaries and the donor update first receiving the stream of income before charitable organization receives it. However, this is beneficial as it gives you and your beneficiaries income and pretty much diversifies your investments. 

                           I mean this is perfect for those with highly appreciated investments that want to create income but still provide consistent cashflow to a charity. I mean, in general, setting up trusts is challenging but there's one disadvantage in the sense that you are using trusts, there is an annual administration fee associated with managing these trusts. That's probably the biggest advantage. But otherwise, trusts are pretty advantageous. You can also donate your retirement counts, your 401ks or your IRAs and life insurance policies to charity. And then you can get tax deductions on those items in the year that you donated them. 

                           And then, I mean the good part is they also got removed from your estate because you break on your state taxes. Then we've also seen use of pooled income funds for charitable givings. Most individuals that go down this route, they typically want to generate income but want to also give small portions to charity. So pooled income fund, maybe their best choice in that sense. And then finally, you can create what is called a private foundation. It's a charity that you set up as a charitable trust or a corporation. 

                           If you're looking to set up your own charitable foundation. A private foundation is good way to get your family involved. Particularly if you have a cause that's very dear to your heart. I mean, although there are stricter regulations and tax laws, private foundation can give grounds to individuals and you can retain control off your donated assets. 

Sahil Vakil:          I think we've gotten too much into the weeds and the complexities of charitable givings. Thank you for sharing that. That's a very deep connection you have with the society there. Any tips or tricks or any insights you might share with our listeners on some of your personal finance strategies? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Nothing too crazy I think to always hear some of these things along the way. I think from an income standpoint, you want to keep 12 to 15 months of cashflow needs aside, if you're able too fortunate to have some cushion from my family, from my parents. So I've made sure that that is protected for my children and their needs and further on if their children need help, it's there. It's not something to use, but it is something that is available. If something happens, you never know what could happen in someone's lifetime. Someone could be held, someone could have a situation that was unforeseen. So it's to prepare for those contingencies or things that you hope will happen. 

Sahil Vakil:          Interesting. What you speak about is what we refer to in the finance industry has an emergency fund. You mentioned 12 to 15 months, which is extremely conservative, but it makes sense because you're talking about an emergency fund that lasts across families across generations. You mentioned it's for yourself, your children, even your children's children in the future. We typically recommend about six months of an emergency fund. But this is great that you have a larger pool there. Since we're talking about personal finances over here, on a slightly more lighter note, what has been your best financial decision? And then in contrast, what has been your worst one? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    I think the best financial decision is an easy one. It is investing in what you know and investing in what you know, I mean is investing in yourself. You crossed yourself to well, put some money to get a good education, put some money to teach yourself new skills. I've always thought hands down that is the best investment you can make outside of that. From a general market standpoint, can you pick out good investments? Some people can, some people can't, but if you thought of you can, there's enough financial literature that says that you can't beat the market. So at least try and get a market return. Obviously all of that compounds over a good period of time, those are all good safe things to do. 

Sahil Vakil:          Clearly you seem to know what your investments have been. You mentioned getting a good market return. You mentioned some interesting concepts of compounding and time value of money related to compounding. What are your chief information sources today? How do you make some of these financial decisions? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    I have a financial planner that I've used as a friend of mine all the years that plus I'm a fairly well educated in the financial world like you are, also a CFA charter holder. On a daily basis, I've the Wall Street when I get time and I read Bloomberg sometimes when I want some lighter material. So just keeping abreast of what's going on and in my role when I was doing mergers and acquisitions, you had to really keep on top of broader economic macro trends. So had access to research data that was almost proprietary that would not be available for consumption of the general public. 

Sahil Vakil:          For our listeners, we will include links to this, a Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg articles. In our show notes, you can find the show notes at myrawealth.com forward slash podcast forward slash episode three. Again, for our listeners we'll include these links to the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg in our show notes. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Correct. That makes sense. Okay, fantastic. 

Sahil Vakil:          And do you have any rules that you follow with your money or all on the flip side, do you actually create any rules for your children as relates to money? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Well, for the kids, not yet. They're still too small. They're six and five or me personally when I invest, it's who you find with a good financial planning, some level of allocation between equity and that some investments which are a little more risky, which could pay off in the long term but which may all go to zero. Some investments in hard assets. By that I mean real estate, either commercial or something that you can enjoy if it's personal real estate. So try and find keep a mix. Obviously that would be downturns and just got to write through it. Think about it as a long-term program for you. You don't need the money right away, I think you can fairly well withstand downturns, inevitably will happen. 

Sahil Vakil:          You mentioned some very interesting concepts there. I mean the fact that you should be looking into different asset classes, equity, debt, real estate, et cetera. It's a very common concept of diversification that we follow in the industry. We typically suggest, I don't have more than 10% of your net worth in any single stock on any single holding diversify across the different asset classes. And only asset classes, we also recommend, diversify across different geographies. If you can invest in the United States, non US developing and emerging markets as well. Also try to invest across different company sizes.

                           So like large cap versus small cap versus your entrepreneurial ventures, maybe your PE or your private equity or venture capital investments there. Another interesting thing you mentioned is have the long-term view, right? A lot of people they day trade and then I think you made this point earlier, active traders just don't beat the market. I mean there's been clear research that shows that in a 90% of active portfolio managers don't beat the market. Having that short-term view, buying and selling every day is just a recipe for disaster. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Yeah. I think there is literature around it, but the literature comes up against basic human nature. So I think if they can follow the literature, you're probably better off in the long haul. 

Sahil Vakil:          So Renju we're towards the end and towards the end I always like to ask our guests, how do you want to be remembered some day? Are there two or three things that you want to do in your lifetime and be remembered for? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Yeah, I want to be run by someone who left the world a better place than I found it. I think it's that plain and simple. I try to put that in the practice every day in everything I try and do whatever it is and my work, whether it is in how I get involved with my children, whether it is how I get involved in the few charities that I stay engaged in, in terms of developing relationships with people and leave this planet better than you found it. I think that's a good maxim to live by because it's a gift to be here. 

Sahil Vakil:          Great. Thank you for sharing. And if there was one thing you know you would leave our international and multicultural audience with in terms of managing their personal finances at one piece of important advice that you would give them, what would that be? 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    I think, don't panic. Don't panic and believe in yourself and believe in getting up and moving on. I think it all comes down to those two words don't panic. It's called the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. 

Sahil Vakil:          Okay. Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. We will add that in our show notes. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    Yeah, and the starting lines on those books all it says “don't panic.” I think that would be my financial advice. 

Sahil Vakil:          Fantastic. Renju it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show here. Thank you for sharing all your professional and personal experiences here, and thank you for sharing that final piece of important advice. Before we leave you here today, there anything, that we should've asked you but forgot to ask you. 

Renju Jose Kuruvila:    No. I think you've covered things pretty down well. Happy to have been on this show with you Sahil and good luck with your venture. 

Sahil Vakil:          Fantastic. Thanks, Renju again. 

Thanks for listening to the Myra Wealth Podcast. Now it's your turn to better manage your money and make smarter financial decisions. Just remember, you're not in this alone. Myra Wealth is here to help. Visit us at MyraWealth.com to learn more. That's M-y-r-a-Wealth.com and get started today.